Round 3

Q:
Let me make this clear. I used to believe in the same Christian God that you do right now. But now, I'm technically an atheist. Atheism is the rejection of the belief of God, due to the lack of evidence. That separates me from the other atheists.

The reason I do not believe in God is not because there is no shred of evidence that God exists, it is because of the numerous evidence that show he doesn't exist.

You believe that prayer works, as the Bible says. I say prayer doesn't work, and I'm about to prove it now. If you pray to get a 100 on the test or get a raise on your salary, will it work? If you do get that 100 or raise, it's not because of the prayer, it's because of you, you made it happen. If two sports team are on a tournament and they both prayed to win, only one will win, and at least one team will know prayer doesn't work.

You believe that praying for a sick person will help them get better right? Wrong.
Another proof (from a real study): Two groups of patients, 1 and 2, are in the hospital. Group 1's relatives were asked to pray for them to get better, while Group 2's did not. In the end it was clear there was no difference. Prayer did NOT work.

That's just the small stuff. There are so many people that pray to God for help, something they really deserve, but they do not get it.

For example: Many people, even children, are starving to death, and they pray to God for help, and guess what? They die. They get nothing. Their prayer didn't work, when they needed it so much, which God should have granted, but did not. Those innocent people, He let them die.
Why?

Maybe you will answer it's unknowable. But even you gotta admit God should have helped them, but he didn't, so it doesn't make sense.
The real answer would be he doesn't exist, so he couldn't help those people, now it can make sense.

Anyways I proved the Bible wrong, prayer DOESN'T work. Another flaw of the Bible.

Looking forward for your response.


A:
Hey dude,

How long ago was that? What made that change? Yeah, like I said before atheism is a system of faith that believes that the lack of physical evidence proves that no God exists. You said you reject the belief in God because the scientific method cannot be applied and therefor no evidence of God exists therefor no God exists. You have to have faith that science and man's genius is the pinnacle of all knowledge in the universe. That the scientific method is the barometer by which we judge whether something is real or not. I refuse to believe that.

You say there is numerous evidence that proves God doesn't exist. I'd like to see that. Please forward any information/links you happen to have. I've yet to see any.

Ah, prayer. I recently learned what real prayer is all about. First off, and with all respect brother, you didn't prove anything. You merely stated your opinion on why you don't believe in it. I'm going to do my best to describe my viewpoint on prayer. please bare with me. :) Your proof. The fact that God might not answer prayers of things like test scores and salaries and wins cannot be entered in as evidence against the fact that prayer is real and prayer works. But I can tell you right now, that prayer isn't like anything you know it to be. Prayer cannot be trivialized and thought of as some way to attain our selfish desires. If we take your attempts at dismissal at face value, for every instance where you say prayer doesn't work, I could give you one where it did.

True prayer is very effective when one is in proper relationship with the Lord.
Remember when I spoke of my concrete Christ centered world view? The power of prayer is rooted in that Truth. I believe that I am his creation, and that his wisdom is far greater than mine. I believe that he knows me better than I do. I believe, as creator of all things, He has a plan for my life. My prayers have changed. My prayers, since staking my claim in a Christ centered universe, have gone from the selfish(worldly/material) to the infinite(His plan for my life). Now when I pray, I pray for his will for my life to show itself. For him to reveal his design to me and open doors that will allow me to have relationship with him and do his bidding while I am living on this planet. I pray for his will to be done, on earth as it is in heaven. I pray for his wisdom, his strength, his patience. That is my ideal. That is my daily goal. To seek out what it is he wants from me in my life, to find that path, and to walk it. And the longer I've done that, the more I've seen the power of prayer work in my own life. I know it works. Do all my prayers get answered? Absolutely not. It's frustrating sometimes and I don't understand it. But I do know that his wisdom and intelligence far surpasses my own. That's a hard pill to swallow sometimes for me. And it's something I've been working on.
Does it mean to not pray for things you need and want in your life? Not at all! I believe the Lord wants us to pray and ask, he wants to bless us. He only gives good gifts. But just because we ask doesn't mean he's going to give. he's not a vending machine God either. He's much bigger. Much greater.

When we were kids(I'm assuming you're just like me in this circumstance) we asked our parents for all sorts of stupid shit. When we were kids, we couldn't comprehend the bigger picture of life, all we cared about was whatever it was that we wanted at the moment. And when we were told no we pissed and moaned because we didn't get it. When we were young we didn't understand the why behind the no. Our parents did though. We were their children and they were looking out for our best interest. See, our parents had a perspective that was very different than our own. I didn't know that when I asked my parents for a Sega Genesis for my birthday in October, that the reason I didn't get one(which I was super bummed about) was because that would have ruined the Christmas surprise that year. But they did. They knew what was going on. That Christmas was awesome, and I was so grateful.

I've seen prayer work in my life. I've seen God's hand move in my life and open doors I never even knew existed. I see a new picture of my life that I never would have guessed or imagined and it's far greater than I ever really thought it could be. I still don't understand it all. My prayer is that it'll start coming together and making sense. I know it will. This movement, these things in my life that cause me to know without a doubt that God is real, and here. These things are not from me. These are things that I could not have accomplished alone. These are things I can't accomplish alone. It's awesome to start to see what one's life can become once they learn to put aside self and have relationship with the Lord. Prayer is integral to that relationship.

Your point about all the horrible things in the world. Why? It's along the same lines as the Hitler/Natural Disasters question. I'll refer you to those emails to answer that one. There is a lot of fucked up shit in this world and sometimes things don't make sense. This earth is saturated in sin and it goes back to the beginning. And just because we can't understand some things with our human brains doesn't mean God doesn't know what he's doing. It takes putting our egos aside and surrendering our hearts to be able to say that. Until one can do that, they cant' truly have a real relationship with the Lord.

Like I said at the beginning, you failed to prove anything, but I appreciate hearing your opinions on the subject. Questioning God, I feel, is healthy. God created everything and everyone, whether they choose to recognize it or not. I believe that he loves when his creation seeks truth. Keep asking questions brother. Again please forward any proof you have that God doesn't exist. I'd like to see it!

All the best,